All Podcasts / Making Sense with Sam Harris / #452 — Is Wokeness Finally Dead?
Making Sense with Sam Harris
Making Sense with Sam Harris

#452 — Is Wokeness Finally Dead?

January 07, 2026 • 21m

Summary

⏱️ 12 min read

Overview

John McWhorter returns to discuss the state of 'woke' ideology four years after his book 'Woke Racism.' While mainstream political support has waned, he argues the ideology remains deeply embedded in academia, journalism, and the arts. The conversation explores how DEI initiatives may simply rebrand, the viral spread of problematic academic theories, and what went wrong in America's response to George Floyd's death. McWhorter and his longtime collaborator Glenn Loury now find themselves at odds over Israel-Palestine issues, marking a rare point of disagreement in their partnership.

The Entrenchment of Woke Ideology in Academia

McWhorter observes that while peak woke has passed in mainstream politics, the ideology has become permanently embedded in academic institutions and the arts. He explains that academics see themselves as having unique insight and authority, passing these beliefs to graduate students who become professors themselves. The hiring patterns and institutional assumptions he witnesses suggest the ideology will persist underground even as DEI programs are officially dismantled, simply rebranding rather than disappearing.

  • Peak woke nationwide now looks 'blissfully quaint,' but academia and the arts may be 'ruined for the duration' with no clear path to uproot the ideology
  • Academics pass ideology to graduate students who become professors, controlling conferences, hiring decisions, and what students are admitted
  • DEI is largely a euphemism for affirmative action—it will likely continue underground with new labels rather than actually disappear
  • McWhorter holds an eccentric position at Columbia with minimal committee involvement, limiting his direct exposure to hiring decisions
" I think that there was a peak woke nationwide, which now looks blissfully quaint. You know, some of the reasons for the defenestration, some of the double talk, what I wrote woke racism to be part of the resistance against. That's another era. But from what I've seen, a lot of academia and a lot of the arts are possibly ruined for the duration because there's no way of uprooting it from those places, especially since it emerged so much from there. "
" The idea is not going to be that we can't do these things. The idea is going to be how can we do these sorts of things and keep up the regime without calling it DEI, without being so overt about it? "

The Case of Philip Ewell: Music Theory as Racist

McWhorter highlights musicologist Philip Ewell as an example of how absurd ideas gain traction in academia. Ewell's argument that music theory is inherently racist and that Beethoven is overrated because he's white has made him influential across music departments. This represents the kind of intellectual conformity that McWhorter sees as difficult to reverse, where professionals pretend obviously flawed arguments make sense out of ideological commitment.

  • Philip Ewell, a black musicologist, has taken the music world by storm since 2020 with the claim that music theory is inherently racist
  • Ewell argues Beethoven was 'just OK' and is lionized too much because he's white, being treated like Ibram Kendi was five years ago
  • This ideology affects curricular decisions and hiring, with people pretending absurd claims make sense
" There is a guy who I am sure is a nice person in real life. His name is Ewell, Philip Ewell. And he is a black musicologist who has taken the music study world by storm ever since the troubles in 2020 with this idea that music theory is inherently racist. And I'm going to avoid getting into the weeds of why that idea doesn't make sense, but it doesn't make any more sense than it sounds. "
" This man is being treated like Ibram Kendi was five years ago. And he speaks in one department after another with a certain kind of person sitting there pretending that it makes sense. "

📚 7 more sections below

Sign up to unlock the complete summary with all insights, key points, and quotes

Listen on Apple Podcasts More Episodes from Making Sense with Sam Harris