Summary
Overview
John Lovett speaks with Mark Dunkelman, author of 'Why Nothing Works,' about the decline of progressive governance from the New Deal era to today. They explore how Democrats shifted from building powerful institutions that delivered results to prioritizing process and speaking truth to power, resulting in government that struggles to accomplish basic tasks. The conversation examines what progressives can learn from Trump's ability to act quickly (while rejecting his lawlessness), why America can no longer build infrastructure efficiently, and how to restore faith in government's ability to deliver.
The Problem: From Building to Blocking
Dunkelman argues that progressivism has fundamentally changed its mission over 50 years. Where it once focused on creating powerful institutions to do big things for people, the left now primarily focuses on speaking truth to power and checking institutional authority. This shift has left Democrats unable to demonstrate that government can work effectively, even as they remain the party of government by default.
- The progressive zeitgeist for 50 years has been 'speaking truth to power' rather than building powerful institutions
- Trump has shown he can do things quickly by ignoring process - he 'just knocked down the East Wing of the White House'
- Democrats need to show government can work to regain popular support, as they are by default the party of government
- The challenge is finding a path between Trump's lawlessness and being 'tied down like Gulliver's Travels'
" Our instinct is to say there's something wrong there. They do something wrong. They're somehow smooshing little people. And we need to out with the bad things they're doing, figure it out, call it out, stop it. And that is largely at odds with what progressivism began as a mission, which was how do we create big, powerful institutions that will do big things for people who can't do for themselves. "
" In order for us to be popular again, we need to show that government can work. I think we are already by default the party of government. Our movement is the one that wants government to work. "
New Deal Speed vs. Modern Paralysis
The contrast between New Deal-era government and today is stark. Programs like the Tennessee Valley Authority and Civilian Conservation Corps were stood up in months and delivered transformative results quickly. Meanwhile, Biden's $7.5 billion EV charger program produced only 58 chargers in three years - not due to laziness or incompetence, but because of the countless process checks inserted into government since the 1970s.
- The Tennessee Valley Authority wired up poor rural areas in the Upper South in months, bringing 19th-century communities into the 20th century
- FDR's jobs programs hired huge portions of the nation in less than a year, then were quickly wound down after the crisis
- Biden's $7.5 billion EV charger program only produced 58 chargers after three years
- The failure wasn't laziness but the complex web of state coordination, competitive bidding, and regulatory requirements
" Franklin Roosevelt hired a lawyer from Wisconsin, essentially, to build the Tennessee Valley Authority, which by itself had the power to build dams, build wires, reforest whole countrysides. And through just pure public power, they miraculously, in almost no time, built a huge power infrastructure that wired up these farms. "
" $7.5 billion, only 58 charges were out. It looked embarrassing. That wasn't laziness. It wasn't the bureaucracy gone wrong. It wasn't anyone's fault per se, but it was the way that the government has instructed something that happened between when the TVA was able to do things expeditiously and the period where government looked incompetent. "
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