Summary
Overview
This episode covers Afghanistan five years after Western withdrawal, with special guest Shoshana Stewart discussing conditions on the ground, the Taliban's rule, and international responses. The discussion then shifts to Russian politics including a banned opposition party and escalating grain wars with Ukraine, before concluding with reflections on the tragic death of academic Jason Arday and the role of media in such cases.
Five Years Since Afghanistan Withdrawal
Alistair and Rory reflect on the fifth anniversary of the catastrophic withdrawal from Afghanistan, noting the complete absence of official statements from governments involved in the 20-year, $2-3 trillion intervention. The hosts explore the complex reality of Afghanistan today: improved security but devastating restrictions on women, economic collapse under sanctions, yet Taliban delivering some infrastructure improvements. The conversation grapples with whether the intervention was justified and what lessons remain unlearned.
- Five years since withdrawal from Afghanistan - no statements from UK, US, or NATO governments marking the anniversary
- 20 years of intervention cost $2-3 trillion and 457 British lives, yet country is back under Taliban rule
- Afghanistan has better security than in 40 years, but 2.4 million girls locked out of secondary school
- 14 million people facing malnutrition, one in nine receiving food from World Food Programme
- Real mistake was trying to reshape Afghan society rather than maintaining a light footprint
" What did 20 years actually buy? What do we owe the Afghans that we promised to protect? And does sanctioning a government like the Taliban punish the government? Or does it punish tens of millions of Afghans. "
" I think the real mistake was not the intervention in the first place. I think the intervention to get rid of the Taliban was initially quite successful. I think it's that we began to try to do too much. "
Life Under Taliban Rule - On the Ground Reality
Shoshana Stewart, who has worked in Afghanistan since 2006, provides firsthand accounts of what daily life is like under Taliban governance. She describes the contradictions: brutal restrictions on women combined with functioning infrastructure and reduced corruption. Through the story of Shabnam, a weaver leading 100 women creating a masterpiece carpet while serving as sole breadwinner and community health worker, Shoshana illustrates both the resilience of Afghan women and the absurdity of their situation under Taliban edicts.
- Woman named Shabnam finished university history degree, then forced to leave when Taliban banned women's education through grade six
- Same woman studied midwifery when allowed, now banned despite Taliban requiring women be seen only by female healthcare workers
- Afghan economy contracted by 25% - no jobs available even for qualified men
- 100 women weavers completed 90 square meter masterpiece carpet for Hillsborough Castle in Northern Ireland
- Taliban decrees like banning women's audible speech in public have mixed implementation across regions
" I do not know what it is like to be an Afghan woman, to go through that roller coaster and to now be the sole breadwinner in your family. What the ups and downs of that are like, I think, are even though I've been working there for 20 years, I simply cannot imagine it. "
" There is something else about it. There's a mindfulness, a therapy in making, and you're making something beautiful. You're bringing something beautiful into the world. You are fundamentally doing the thing that is beautiful about your culture, what was passed down to you, what you'll pass on to your children. "
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