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Owen Jones vs. TRIGGERnometry

October 10, 2026 • 1h 52m

Summary

⏱️ 8 min read

Overview

Owen Jones joins Trigonometry to defend his book's central thesis: that neoliberalism at home and Western military interventionism abroad are responsible for the decline of the West. The conversation covers economic policy from the 1980s onwards, the Venezuela experiment, immigration policy, and the definition of neoliberalism itself. Jones argues that post-Thatcher/Reagan policies delivered less growth that was inequitably distributed, while the hosts challenge his historical timeline and economic arguments, particularly around immigration's impact on wages and public services.

Defining Neoliberalism and Its Economic Impact

Jones defines neoliberalism as privatization, tax cuts for the wealthy, curtailing organized labor, and financialization of the economy. He argues this model has produced weaker economic growth than the 1960s-70s while being less equitably distributed. The hosts challenge his timeline, noting that the recession of 1980-81 preceded most of the policies Jones blames for causing it, including major privatizations and deregulation which came years later.

  • Neoliberalism defined as privatization, tax cuts on the wealthy, deregulation, financialization, and hobbling organized labour
  • Average growth in the 1970s was almost the same as the 1980s, but less equitably distributed in the 80s
  • The recession was in 1980, but major privatizations like BT happened in 1984, deregulation in 1986
  • Thatcher hiked interest rates and made British exports uncompetitive, causing rapid deindustrialization in early 1980s
" Such policies helped plunge Britain and the US into dire recession in the 1980s, but later in the 1990s the economies were booming. "
" How could those things that happened in 1984 and 1985 cause a recession in 1980? But the policies happened five years later. "

Venezuela as a Test Case for Socialist Policies

The conversation turns to Jones's 2012 statement that Venezuela was "an inspiration to the world." Jones defends the Chavez government's poverty reduction from 1998-2012 while acknowledging the catastrophic collapse under Maduro. He argues Venezuela's failure was due to over-reliance on oil rather than socialism itself, pointing to Bolivia and Ecuador as counter-examples. The hosts challenge whether this represents selective short-term thinking common among Western leftists observing socialist experiments.

  • Venezuela descended into catastrophe with 78% poverty, 38% extreme poverty, and 10,000% inflation
  • Jones argues poverty objectively fell very steeply under Chavez from 1998 to 2012
  • The big mistake was making fossil fuels the centerpiece - 98% of economy dependent on oil
  • Venezuela in 2012 had a smaller state sector than Britain has now
  • Jones met opposition leaders in Venezuela who said they didn't regard Chavez as a dictator, though they opposed his demagogic tendencies
" The big mistake of Venezuela and which, you know, which I should have obviously thought of at the time and definitely was something that I guess I'd learned from, is they made fossil fuels, they made oil their absolute centrepiece. 98% of our economy was dependent on it. "
" I didn't think it was a socialist society. I thought it was a progressive government which was reducing poverty. "

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